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Author Topic: Line Art
LucidTaint
Newbie

Member # 114

posted 29-10-2002 01:17 AM     Profile for LucidTaint   Author's Homepage   Email LucidTaint     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
Aaaaaalrighty. This is something that's been bothering me for a while. I can't seem to get some decent line art out of my pictures.

I don't want to ink them, because any time I try to ink them the lines aren't smooth (I don't have a very steady hand). And I tend to like keeping the pencil sketches.

So I heard a few places that Adobe Illustrator was good for creating line art. (Good thing, too, because I was trying to use Paint Shop Pro's bezier line tool -- workable, but a bitch to get things to look right, since you only have two curve points in the line.)

I loaded me up a copy of Illustrator 9 and played around with it a bit. Kind of a complex little program. Now, I tried using the autotrace tool, but it puts a double line in places where there should only be a single line.

The other tools seem kind of... complicated. (Well, the whole program seems that way, to tell the truth.) And I've searched for tutorials and tips, online, but none of them are for the very specific type of work I'm doing -- line art over a scanned pencil sketch. So none of them really apply.

If anyone could give me any tips, I'd really appreciate it. I'm about this close to just going back to Paint Shop Pro. LoL


Posts: 5 | From: Oregon | Registered: Oct 2002  |  IP: Logged
SongSiuHua
Grand Member

Member # 90

posted 29-10-2002 01:40 AM     Profile for SongSiuHua   Email SongSiuHua     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
I usually use Photoshop and play with levels and brightness and contrast to get a clean line drawing... However my line work is usually pretty crisp!!

Streamline seemed like it would be good to get a good vector that you could drop into photoshop or even illustrator...

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Mud Buhda had told too many secrets of the Gods and was punished with painful boils all over his body. Only FireMonkey can suck out the poison!


Posts: 144 | From: Houston, Texas | Registered: Sep 2002  |  IP: Logged
G.i.A.m.
Moderator

Member # 14

posted 29-10-2002 02:05 AM     Profile for G.i.A.m.   Email G.i.A.m.     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
Well first of wellcome onboard .

As for Illustrator as a good lineart program,
Well it is good for BW lineart because it is Vector based.

But as you allready discovered, it is a time consuming thing to creat complicated lineart from scratch.

The good thing about Vector drawing is, that no matter how much you change the size of your drawing, the lines will allways be sharp.


There are programs out there that can convert a normal pixel based image, into a vector drawing (adobe streamline for example).
The result however depends alot on the quality of the original drawing .

Traum4 has a tutorial on his page that covers digital inking in pixelbased programs (photoshop, paintshop pro).


Otherwise I would say that the best way to ink is still by hand.
Because it is the fastest way.
I've been told that with more practice the lines will get better and the hands stop shaking.

For saving your pencil work,
I can give you the tip of inking a copy of the pencil drawing.

Either by actualy going to a copyshop or by scanning in your drawing and reprinting it on a new sheet of paper.

The third way would be using a light box to trace your work by hand


btw alot artist dont use ink at all (bomu seems to be one of them )

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Wer nicht vom Meister lernt, lernt nie etwas.

Wer nur vom Meister lernt, lernt nie genug.


Posts: 1063 | From: Germany, Giessen | Registered: Jan 2002  |  IP: Logged
LucidTaint
Newbie

Member # 114

posted 29-10-2002 04:27 AM     Profile for LucidTaint   Author's Homepage   Email LucidTaint     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
Thanks for the feedback, it's much appreciated.

I'm afraid that CGing is kind of new territory for me. I've been attempting to color my pictures on the computer for a while, now, I've just never been very good at it. With the tips I've gotten from this site (Organic Metal) and a few others, I can definitely say I'm at least improving, though I'm far from being where I'd like to be, skill-wise.

The line art problem seems to be one of my hurdles. My art does tend to be smudgy, but my scanner only seems to accentuate that. When I try to do the shadow/midtone/highlight adjustment, I end up losing parts of lines or still have horrible smudges.

The Kawaii Carrot site did have a lot of good CGing tips that I'll be certain to use, but unfortunately his line art tips are for someone with a Wacom tablet, and thus far I haven't had the funds to invest in something like that. I'll try to do what he talked about, but I don't think I'll get the smooth lines with my mouse.

As for what I was talking about with the bezier line tool, out of PSP, here's my latest project I did a few weeks ago -- I did him up with the line tool and I guess it's alright, but still wasn't what I was shooting for:

chibi_seph.html

Right now, the one I was trying to line art-ify was this sketch:

eladeya.jpg.html

You can see how smudgy my sketches scan in. And this one has more detail than the little chibi thing I did in fifteen minutes, above. I don't think PSP's line tool is going to cut it on this one. Maybe I should just go ahead and drop that $300 on a tablet.

Anyway, thanks again.


Posts: 5 | From: Oregon | Registered: Oct 2002  |  IP: Logged
G.i.A.m.
Moderator

Member # 14

posted 29-10-2002 06:51 PM     Profile for G.i.A.m.   Email G.i.A.m.     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
Hey your drawings doesnt look that bad I like them.

To get rid of smudges,
I would recommed harder pencils they smudge alot less compared to softer pencils

$300 what kind of tablet do you look for.

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Wer nicht vom Meister lernt, lernt nie etwas.

Wer nur vom Meister lernt, lernt nie genug.


Posts: 1063 | From: Germany, Giessen | Registered: Jan 2002  |  IP: Logged
LucidTaint
Newbie

Member # 114

posted 29-10-2002 08:44 PM     Profile for LucidTaint   Author's Homepage   Email LucidTaint     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
LoL -- well, that seems to be about the standard price people I've seen online have paid for theirs. I never looked into if I could get one cheaper, cause I figured I didn't have the kind of cash that was required to spend on one. Is there a tablet you'd recommend for someone who doesn't really need anything fancy and is somewhat strapped for funds?

And thanks for the compliment. I can see definite improvement from my earlier work -- even from two years ago. I do a lot more prelim work (start with the circle, stick figure pose, etc) than I did back then and it helps -- a lot. Now if I could just learn to CG it better, I'd be happy with myself.


Posts: 5 | From: Oregon | Registered: Oct 2002  |  IP: Logged
FunkyC
Member

Member # 92

posted 30-10-2002 12:20 AM     Profile for FunkyC   Email FunkyC     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
YEP! I recently got a Wacom Tablet (Graphire 2) from the official site (http://www.wacom.com/index2.cfm thanks for that G.i.A.m)

And it only cost me $99 (actually I got it for my bday, but thats besides the point)

I havent really had chance to use it properly, but I've been told time and time again, that its 'worth its weight in gold'

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Posts: 98 | From: Somewhere in Limbo | Registered: Sep 2002  |  IP: Logged
Pixie Nim
Grand Member

Member # 35

posted 30-10-2002 10:22 AM     Profile for Pixie Nim   Author's Homepage   Email Pixie Nim     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
I know what you mean about inking - it's been the bane of my life for the longest time... to be honest, I usually use brightness/contrast to remove all the light pencil lines and then use the eraser tool to take out all the mistakes... tho this always takes an age. I don't ink by hand because my lines always turn out different widths and the picture loses so much in the inking - I always think the pencil version looks about a trillion times nicer, and I don't like losing it by inking it straight on top. Most of the time I'm too scared to ruin my pictures by inking them... I so rarely do anything I like!

Ideally, one day I'll either be good at inking my own drawings by hand, or team up with some amazing inker like Meth and get them to do it all for me... ;)

I heard Adobe Streamline is good for getting lines smooth, but I don't know - I don't have it myself...

Pixie

ps - I drew something cool yesterday! I actually didn't hate it and stick it in the bin! And it only took me like 5 or 6 hours!!!!! Yay! it's been so long!!!

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sexy pants! hee hee!


Posts: 281 | From: ganjaland | Registered: Mar 2002  |  IP: Logged
LucidTaint
Newbie

Member # 114

posted 30-10-2002 11:09 AM     Profile for LucidTaint   Author's Homepage   Email LucidTaint     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
Thanks, everyone, for all the tips and advice.

Yes, about $100 sounds much more reasonable, though they advertise the Graphire2 tablet as being for photo manipulation, and (being clueless on the whole tablet thing) I wasn't sure if it would do what I wanted.

Before I saw FunkyC's post, I took their little "which tablet is best for you" test and it kept trying to push one of the more expensive tablets on me -- go figure.

The tablets seem awful small, though. 4x5 inches? 6x8 inches? Is it difficult to maneuver the pen properly in that small of a space? Again, I have absolutely no experience in how the tablets work, but it just seems awful small to me.


Posts: 5 | From: Oregon | Registered: Oct 2002  |  IP: Logged
SongSiuHua
Grand Member

Member # 90

posted 30-10-2002 06:21 PM     Profile for SongSiuHua   Email SongSiuHua     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
Actually you dont notice it when you move the pen on the screen
. Its scaled and calibrated sooo a small move on the tablet will make a larger move on the screen.

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Mud Buhda had told too many secrets of the Gods and was punished with painful boils all over his body. Only FireMonkey can suck out the poison!

Posts: 144 | From: Houston, Texas | Registered: Sep 2002  |  IP: Logged
FunkyC
Member

Member # 92

posted 31-10-2002 12:06 AM     Profile for FunkyC   Email FunkyC     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
Yeah it is pretty small (but for that price what do you expect?)

The pen moves around easily as far as I can tell..heh heh it takes some getting used to. You can use the Graphire for ditigal art if you want to...I think this tablet is ideal of beginners (like me)

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Posts: 98 | From: Somewhere in Limbo | Registered: Sep 2002  |  IP: Logged
G.i.A.m.
Moderator

Member # 14

posted 31-10-2002 12:36 AM     Profile for G.i.A.m.   Email G.i.A.m.     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
Like the others said size doesn't matter its just a personal preference .

I like the smaller size better, this way I dont have to move my arm to draw from one edge to the other.

And yes the graphire is in my eyes a good enough tablet for coloring and drawing.

btw. FunkyC if you dont like the feel of the
plastic nib on the tablet surface, just place a paper on it.

--------------------
Wer nicht vom Meister lernt, lernt nie etwas.

Wer nur vom Meister lernt, lernt nie genug.


Posts: 1063 | From: Germany, Giessen | Registered: Jan 2002  |  IP: Logged

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