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Author Topic: How do I start out doing comission art???
neo
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Member # 88

posted 27-11-2002 05:44 PM     Profile for neo   Email neo     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
Ok, ive been drawing a fair few years now and im fed up of doing it for no good reason other than to pass time or just for the hell of it. How do I start out getting comission pieces and such?. How do I begin?.

Hope you bother to answer this as it's important to me. Ta.

NEO


Posts: 864 | From: On my favourite chair | Registered: Sep 2002  |  IP: Logged
Bugsy
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Member # 9

posted 29-11-2002 08:15 AM     Profile for Bugsy   Author's Homepage   Email Bugsy     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
I don't really know much about that, but in any case I'd suggest building a decent online portfolio, and compose a comission table of sorts (either for yourself or for people to judge); different prices depending on whether or not it is coloured, printed, an existing character, the hours of work... Logically, the more work the more expensive

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Desert Rain

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Pixie Nim
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Member # 35

posted 29-11-2002 12:49 PM     Profile for Pixie Nim   Author's Homepage   Email Pixie Nim     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
I rekkon commissions are something that just happens as you get better... think you start with a wikkid website (and maybe a manga to support it) and then people start thinking you're good, and ask you to... then you set up prices and stuff. That was my plan, anyway... ;) Bomu problee knows more about this, he's actually done commissions... You could try emailing people who do professional commissions and ask how they got into it? Like Artplaygirl (and boy!) and people like that.

Pix

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sexy pants! hee hee!


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neo
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Member # 88

posted 29-11-2002 05:13 PM     Profile for neo   Email neo     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
Cheers. Seems like you two always help this poor idiot out with your wisdom. Cheers.
(not sarcasm even though it sounds that way). Ill see what I can do...

What do you recommend for a portfolio content?. Whats the usual thing commisioners want from people like me?.


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Pixie Nim
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Member # 35

posted 29-11-2002 05:49 PM     Profile for Pixie Nim   Author's Homepage   Email Pixie Nim     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
Neo - portfolios! Now there's something I know a little more about!

Basically, as with everything, it depends what you want to do. If you wanna do loads of manga commissions (I guess you do?!) then make up a portfolio of your best manga works. Do some pencils and inks as well as colours, and the more the merrier (as long as it's mostly the same sort of quality, I guess). And put a contact email somewhere visible...

Otherwise, portfolio advice I've received is:

-presentation is the most important thing. The first thing that hits the viewer's eye is colour, so think *really* carefully about this! Not just for the pictures in your portfolio (for any finished piece of work you should think carefully about layout, colour balances, negative space, etc etc etc, all the usual) but the website design too. Like in art galleries, they always have the walls white. That's to show off the work in the best possible way - without lots of clashing colours and stuff. Presentation is the number one most important thing, almost more important than the work itself.

-the other thing I've been told is to aim your work to a specific goal - like if I wanted to be a photographer, and go for a degree in that, to my interview I'd wanna take loads of my best photos. (and not too much irrelevant stuff). But still, it's worth showing that you're inventive and want to try out new things and be experimental. Variety shows off your multiple talents - how versitle you are! and if you can say a few things (not masses) about each piece which shows you've put lots of thought into it, this helps. If you're a really versitle artist (and can show you are) you've got a larger target audience who want to commission you!

-All the work in your portfolio should be finished and as professional looking as possible. No sketches on liney paper! (put these in a seperate section with a label to show they're just rough work - it's good for viewers to see your workings, they just don't wanna think you're messy or anything).

-If you can try and win competitions (not just net ones, look out for them everywhere -I found a great art comp. in Topshop the other day!) this also helps. You get a name for yourself and a reputation to match. Making loads of mates on the net helps with this too - you can get them to link to your site! As many links as possible so you get masses of hits...

-In art college, they encourage us to work LARGE!!! really big, A1 size paper. This isn't really necessary in your case (particularly if you're going to have an online portfolio) but I think 1-it's VERY good practice and 2-it's worth writing in your notes about every piece what materials you used (pencil and ink, or cg, or marker pens, or watercolours, or whatever) the type of paper (cartridge, generally, and it's weight - like 130g/m2 - the thicker the better, generally, to work on) AND the original size of the work (in cm or inches or something else most people understand).

-versitility in mediums (like watercolours, markers, pastels, chalks, etc etc) is as useful as versitility in styles and types of work (sculpture, illustration, graphic design, photography, etc etc). Someone who can draw incredible watercolour pictures will always be slightly more respected than someone who cgs, cause it's much harder to paint it and you can't make too many mistakes! But if you can do both brilliantly, even better...

and here are a few links to sites of people who do commissions, so you can see how they present and what sort of stuff they show (and the quality of the work) if you like... ;)

art by feng

artplayboy and artplaygirl's site they have a whole gallery section on commissions

Meth's website, she does inks for comics professionally

okay, that was probably the most patronising rant I've ever given... *sigh* sorry about that... hope it helps, anyway, and is not just crap... ;)

Pixie

[ 29-11-2002: Message edited by: Pixie Nim ]

[ 29-11-2002: Message edited by: Pixie Nim ]

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sexy pants! hee hee!


Posts: 281 | From: ganjaland | Registered: Mar 2002  |  IP: Logged
kaori shima
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Member # 98

posted 01-12-2002 05:49 AM     Profile for kaori shima   Author's Homepage   Email kaori shima     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
wow pixie thats alot of good advise

i would just like to emphasize if your tired of art being a hobby. . SET A GOAL!! it might not matter if youve taken every art class on earth, if you have no clue what you want to do you might not be doing much

if you wanna look into commision artwork, why not aim a bit higher, like book illustrations, normally the writer will commision an artist of their choice

hey remember ^.~ if you aim for the farthest stars and miss you land on the moon

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<neo>
Newbie

posted 02-12-2002 07:35 PM       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
Nice quote Kaori. Ill remember that 1.

Cheers 1 and all 4 your great advice. Special thanks to pix for her comprehensive and detailed help. Ill work on a portfolio l8r today. Pix when r you gonna post some more of your cool stories?.


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Bomu
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posted 02-12-2002 08:10 PM     Profile for Bomu   Author's Homepage   Email Bomu     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
Yeah- Good advice guys! Dragonfly, SilentDan and Im sure loads of other members have taken on commissions, but since not everyone's always active, asking how pros got into the commissioning this is always a good idea and easy these days since there are SO many fab artists with websites and email addresses. I remember getting a lot of help a while back from a lady called Michiko who's site I can't remember for the life of me but I'll try and look it up some time and link to it cos she had some really cool tips about stuff like what to charge, contracts and copyright etc. When it comes to adding the 'business' element into your hobby there's sh!t loads to consider!

Best thing I'd advise is to get together a portfolio (see pixie's tips) then plug it for all it's worth- this is what I did with Organic Metal and had a lot of responce considering its just a personal site rather than a business.

Once people know of you and contact u for work, you'll then have to begin the negotiations! Im actuallky half way through a tutorial on this part of things- if u want me to post what I have so far, let me know

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Organic Metal


Posts: 1622 | From: Kent, England | Registered: Jan 2002  |  IP: Logged
neo
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Member # 88

posted 03-12-2002 02:38 AM     Profile for neo   Email neo     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
yeah. Please do.
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Bomu
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Member # 1

posted 05-12-2002 12:12 AM     Profile for Bomu   Author's Homepage   Email Bomu     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
Ok! Well it's more an article on what to do after you've got your site up and someone interested and still needs some work, but it's a start. Hope it makes sense.

Commissioning digital art and design and working freelance

Keep in mind most of this will be taken from my own experiences of producing anime style artwork and designs for individuals and companies. It’s written for people who are taking on commercial projects and commissions for the first time.

Starting out.

Ok, so you’ve gotten to a satisfactory level with your art or design skills and have been asked if you’d take on a commission or freelance project. Let’s say the client is approaching you for the first time to ask for some work. Maybe they found you via advertisement, web site or word of mouth. Will you accept their offer or reply, to let them know you want to take them up on the offer? Don’t be so quick to say yes! Always know exactly what you’d be getting yourself into, even if you’re out of work and need the money/self promotion and it sounds like a great opportunity.

Typically, you’ll be contacted by a small/ starting out company or individual, since the big boys will stick to experienced individual designers or studios who have a good reputation. Face the fact you’re a nobody right now. But you’re obviously good enough to start bringing in the pennies since there’s some interest!

First contact

In a ‘first contact’ email sent from the client you can get a lot of info of who exactly you’ll be dealing with – which sometimes is way more important than if you feel you can do the work or not! There’s a lot of tell-tail signs to what the client will be like and what their budget might be.

A potentially bad email might look like this:

hi. i saw your website and think you are a really good artist! i have a project im working on with a friend which wil require some artwork how much would it be for 5 character drawings in really cool poses and colored in photoshop? We have put some money aside for this project which we intend to publish within a month so could pay you as soon as possible! Let me know if your interestd

Wow! They have money and they want to pay me just for a bit of art!? – Don’t think like that. It sounds really dodgy!! It’d be a lot better if clients:
- Introduce themselves or at least sign off. Who the hell is this guy?
- Give as much initial info on what’s needed to start with. Ok, it’s only a starter mail, but it makes life easier.
- Where’s the spelling, punctuation and grammar gone? This must be a kid, which means he doesn’t have much money or business experience.
- They Shouldn’t expect a price quote without you knowing EXACTLY what you’re doing
- Ok, so it’s probably a kid and from America – since he spells colour without the ‘u’ and since I’m from England it might make it harder for him to send me payment and more hastle for me *See payment section)


In this situation, don’t write back and say, “Get lost loser!”. Us artists are the professional ones remember? Plus you never know what leads this could bring. Maybe the guy’s dad works for Nintendo and will be looking for a lead 2d designer! You never know. You could either make up an excuse saying you’re busy, which means you could always come back to this guy if you’re dersperate. Or just say you’re not interested.

Now let’s compare it to a potentially good email:

Dear XXXX,

My name’s Chrisian Smith and I’m product manager of a small but growing online store which sells stylish goods (stationary, t-shirts, fun stuff etc.), which is aimed at 10 – 18 year olds. We are interested in bringing out our own brand of anime style merchandise. Since your type of work is just what we’re looking for I was wondering if creating some anime style characters and artwork for us would be of interest to you?

Let me know what you think, any questions, just ask!

- Christian
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Product Manager of Co & Co http://www.coandco.com
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It’s quite obvious that there’s a difference. But it’s still not perfect – it never is! But at least:

- You know who he is, who he works for, what they do.
- A web url was supplied – you can check out the site and see how professional they seem.
- It was a well written email, you can probably expect professional dealings with this one
- And it was friendly too, which is just as important as professionalism.

What now?

Now you have had what seems to be a decent offer from Christian of Co & Co, I’d pursue it! But keep in mind, freelance projects take time. If you don’t have the time, don’t waste theirs! But at this stage, you don’t know exactly what will be involved, so by all means write back for more information. Working for others can be stressful and frustrating. Is it worth it? They might only pay a small sum for a lot of work- always keep that in mind. Getting money is great but working hard for a small amount can make you feel ripped off and bitter.

You’ve had a day to think about (don’t leave it for weeks or the job might go) It’s time to write an email reply. Though out you need to remember 3 things:

Be informative, give as much info as you can. Let the client know exactly what’s going on your end. Be precise.
Be polite and friendly, once you get stuck in to a working relationship things can get really ugly with either of you stops the pleasantries and manners.
Be professional, Don’t act arrogant or boastful, but you’re the designer – they came to you, you have all the answers and have done this a thousands times. Or at least, that’s how you need to portray yourself!

Questions and briefing

There’s always questions you’ll need answers to after the first contact email. Lots of questions in one go might put some clients off, so you might want to introduce them slowly over the course of a few email exchanges. Only ask relevant questions- you don’t need to ask what clothes Christian is wearing or what he’s having for lunch!

Based on his initial mail, You’d want to know more info! (Be sure to add pleasenties etc)
What exactly does he wants you to do?

-Christian replies: 3 character designs. 2 Male, 1 female (teenagers). One of the male charas will be dressed in sk8er gear and doing a jump on a skateboard. The other male chara will be dressed in similar, but more casual clothes and standing. The girl will be dressed in modern casual clothes, sitting on something like a box or step.
We also want 3 group pictures with all three characters looking cool together. One with no background (for t-shits), and two pieces with backgrounds and in a scene like a street or bedroom or something as long as it look really cool!

Sounds good! You now need to know:
Is there any particular line or colouring style they want?

-Christian replies: Something clean cut like an anime movie, but would appeal old slightly older generation than the Pokemon lovers! How about sending over some sample ideas and we can pick what we like.

You wont send samples over yet. Now it’s up to you to work with what information he’s given. Artists have the right to stick to the brief as best they can and interpret how they see fit. So, before doing anything now, I think it’s time to talk money!

Money issues.

You need to agree a cost. I’d do this before working on any samples AND charge for the initial sample designs as well. Try to get them to quote you a price for this- they know their buget better than you do. But most of the time it’ll swing back to you to make the first move.
For the above example of 3 charas, 5 pieces: $50-100 for several rough example sketches. $300 for each character design/drawing. $500 for the group pic and $700 for each group pic with back ground for a total of: $2800 flat fee for unlimited use (*see rights). Not bad you might think! But will they accept or run away crying? I’ve found most smaller companies tend not to negotiate and haven’t had prior dealings with graphic artists etc. They’ll either say yes or no. Even if it’s a no, you can always then lower your price.

What determines costs?

Co & Co seem like a decent business with an educated product manager who knows what he’s talking about. Their site and business practice looked big and professional. They’re probably doing alright for themselves if they can afford to bring out their own line of branded mechandise. They seem keen to work with me and like my stuff. I will create a brand for them to use unlimitedly without royalties. This could be risky if they happen to get REALLY huge, but I feel they aren’t heading down the Cocacola or Disney Route, like 99% of businesses don’t. Also this is gonna take a lot of time. You need to be compensated! These are all factors which will cause you to charge more.

So why aren’t we adding an extra few zeros to the end of that figure? Well this is one of your first jobs! Experience will allow you to charge more and feel comfortable for doing so. This isn’t Microsoft or Sony! Co & Co are small and probably themselves taking a risk with a new merchandise venture- this will make them reluctant to shell out lots of money on something which isn’t guaranteed to sell. Unlike Windows XP which sold copies despite the fact it was full of bugs and caused hardware conflicts! At the moment you have to be prepared to work hard for your money! Your artistic skills are no doubt nowhere near your maximum potential. Do your skills compare to the likes of other professional artists yet? It’s good experience and may help get you a foot in the commercial working door- it’s not all about money.

I feel the art you are to produce will be the key selling point, rather than the poster paper quality etc. Since artwork will take a bigger role in the whole project, I feel more confident that they will agree to a bigger spend my end. So start by explaining to the client what you think is involved to show it’s not just a case of sitting down for a few hours with a pencil, then collecting a fat pay cheque moments later. Once they realises its several days work, he’ll be willing to pay more accordingly. You’re not being sneaky here- just explaining that it’s likely to take days or more likely weeks of solid hard work which you need to be compensated for. Ask, How does £2800 sound? YOU don’t treat it like a big figure, but don’t lie either by saying you usually get paid millions for every other job you do!

He’ll now say yes or no! It can be disheartening if after all that, they turn around and say they’re only willing to pay $300! If that’s the case, I wouldn’t bother with it unless you really want the money. It’s a lot of hard work and plenty of business’ out there that would pay your required fee of $300 just for the one chara pic. If you make it as a full time professional freelancer with big clients, you might even have opportunities to charge $28,000 – $280,000 (inc royalties) at least for this kinda project! Although realistically, these big contracts will go to teams/ studios who work together for several weeks.

---

Still need to cover stuff like:

Commuinication. Proffessional Relationships
Be friendly, informative.

Pricing.

Time.

Legal issues and contracts

Art commission Specifics

Web Design Specifics

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Organic Metal


Posts: 1622 | From: Kent, England | Registered: Jan 2002  |  IP: Logged
<neo>
Newbie

posted 05-12-2002 07:50 PM       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
informative and useful. keep it coming
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SilentDan
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Member # 117

posted 08-12-2002 05:05 AM     Profile for SilentDan   Author's Homepage   Email SilentDan     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
Yeah duder, as Bomu said, I've done a few commissions, but to tell the truth I didn't like it, I'm sure Bomu felt the same, you feel pressured, have no freedom, my art is usually spontanious and I can't squeeze good pictures out of myself at will, people who commission you will try too and if you want that cash you HAVE too. If you need the cash desperatly go for it, its good to try a few commissions for yourself, you'll understand, its like having a 3000 word essay having to be in for school the next day, and you haven't even started, well it has been for me lol, I suggest you go for it bud, Im not trying to sway you from the idea, just telling you my experience with commissioned work. The money has been good in the way of hours, but you have to do several pieces before you can decided how much you should be getting, the people I have been working for so far have been recieving bargains! No wonder they we're so quick to take me! Plus I've taken on a jobs that I thought we're going to be easy and made a small offer, but then got bossed around a little too much, thats what I mean about the freedom. Right thats all I have to say dude, please go for it though man, tis' just my poor experience.

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Lifes Answers Lay Ahead With A Simple Click Of The Mouse... Probably... Just Not Here!

Posts: 360 | From: London | Registered: Nov 2002  |  IP: Logged
neo
Extreme Member

Member # 88

posted 08-12-2002 07:36 PM     Profile for neo   Email neo     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
im not wild about doing it but its a way of making money out of what i love to do. Can you guys post the real comission requests here so i can have a gander at what they ask of you and the way they ask it. Draft ideas you worked on and the final pieces which they received from you if its not too much trouble.

It'll serve to illustrate the process from A-B-C for me and anyone else whos been following this topic. Cheers.


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SilentDan
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Member # 117

posted 08-12-2002 10:49 PM     Profile for SilentDan   Author's Homepage   Email SilentDan     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
The commisioned pieces ive done I've discussed in e-mails and over the phone.

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Lifes Answers Lay Ahead With A Simple Click Of The Mouse... Probably... Just Not Here!

Posts: 360 | From: London | Registered: Nov 2002  |  IP: Logged

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