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Author Topic: Infos on different fileformats
G.i.A.m.
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Member # 14

posted 10-02-2003 06:21 PM     Profile for G.i.A.m.   Email G.i.A.m.     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
a Quick guide to image formats.

Ok lets start,
We have three different Formats for Images used on the web JPG/GIF/PNG
GIF And PNG are both looseless formats (means no information will be lost during save)
JPG on the other side will drop some image infos to get a smaller filesize.


GIF/PNG achive a reduction in filesize by writing the image data in a better form then a uncompressed format would (BMP).

This is how a BMP stores information.

line1 pixel 1 red, pixel 2 red, pixel 3 red, pixel 4 blue, pixel 5 blue, pixel 6 red, pixel 7 red;

This is how GIF/PNG would save the same data.

line1 pixel 1-3 red, pixel 4-5 blue, pixel 6-7 red;

Ofcourse thats just a helper.
I'm not a programmer and dunno how it realy looks inside, but that should be the way it works.

One thing that can be seen from this is, that gif/png work best if alot of the same colored pixel is next to each other.
Making it a good format when you save lineart or flat colored and simple shaded work.
Here is a nice effect that puts the compressing routine in very good use.


The image to the left is 111,928kb in filesize where the image to the right is only 62,946kb small.

Save the images and zoom them to see how it works.


JPG try's to mathematical round out the color usage in a curtain area.
This especial works well with gradient color transitions, but has its problem with sharp details.
Also keeping the exact colors is not possible with JPG at higher compression lvls.

Another important thing to keep in mind is, that JPG compress everytime you save the image (saving in the browser excluded, but open and saving a jpg in an image suite will constantly decrease the image quality).


This is a extremly compressed JPG picture.
Notice how it turned all blocky and the colors went off compared to the png version.

Color depth
Just a small information addon, GIF is a relativ old format that only supports 256 colors.
If your image contains more (you can count the used colors normaly in a graphic suite), they will be lost.
PNG on the other hand does'nt have this limitation.

Usage.

Ok after this theoretical stuff my tips and guide to when use which format.


JPG. Is best used, when the image contains alot soft gradients and colors like photos or detailed coloring.

Remember tho to keep the compression rather low (personaly I try to stay between 1-10% compression) and to only save a image once as a jpg in the end (keep a working image in the editors own format psd for photoshop or psp for paintshop pro).


Gif/PNG. Those formats are best used, when details are more important then filesize.
Especial lineart, used for coloring, should be saved in either one of this formats.
You can also use this format if you deal with grayscale images, as those only have 256 colors(greyshades) and images that have areas with a single color (make sure that it is realy one color tho).

Ok thats this for now I hope it helps a bit, if you have questions just ask them I will try to anwser them.
Also if you find spell errors, tell me those aswell so I can correct them, tnx.

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Wer nicht vom Meister lernt, lernt nie etwas.

Wer nur vom Meister lernt, lernt nie genug.


Posts: 1063 | From: Germany, Giessen | Registered: Jan 2002  |  IP: Logged
Pixie Nim
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posted 17-02-2003 02:18 PM     Profile for Pixie Nim   Author's Homepage   Email Pixie Nim     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
okay I am vveeeery ill (head cold and ear infection yay) so not gonna give a detailed reply, sorry - but just wanted to say fanx!! when I feel less like passing out I'm sure that's gonna be a great help... =)

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sexy pants! hee hee!

Posts: 281 | From: ganjaland | Registered: Mar 2002  |  IP: Logged
G.i.A.m.
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Member # 14

posted 17-02-2003 06:08 PM     Profile for G.i.A.m.   Email G.i.A.m.     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
Oh, sad to her that .

Hope you can get on our nerves with your happy mood again, pretty soon .

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Wer nicht vom Meister lernt, lernt nie etwas.

Wer nur vom Meister lernt, lernt nie genug.


Posts: 1063 | From: Germany, Giessen | Registered: Jan 2002  |  IP: Logged
Bomu
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posted 02-03-2003 02:38 AM     Profile for Bomu   Author's Homepage   Email Bomu     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
That's cool! I wouldn't have thought about writting a mini-tutorial on file formats, but it's probably something that anyone that uses the internet should know!

It's all informative stuff! Do PNG files have any limitations do you know? Not many people seems to use them compared to jpegs and gifs.

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Organic Metal


Posts: 1622 | From: Kent, England | Registered: Jan 2002  |  IP: Logged
G.i.A.m.
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Member # 14

posted 06-03-2003 10:06 PM     Profile for G.i.A.m.   Email G.i.A.m.     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
As far as I know the only limitation compared to the others is that png cant save animations.
But its rather new and browsers still dont support all features(Image displays fine but PNG can save a alpha channel for transparency that isnt shown).

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Wer nicht vom Meister lernt, lernt nie etwas.

Wer nur vom Meister lernt, lernt nie genug.


Posts: 1063 | From: Germany, Giessen | Registered: Jan 2002  |  IP: Logged
kaori shima
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posted 09-03-2003 05:06 AM     Profile for kaori shima   Author's Homepage   Email kaori shima     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
oohhhhhh *feels enlightened*

i have a question. if i scan a picture, and i want to make a print out of my scan - what file format should i save it under? jpg is such a pain!!! since pictures always print out smaller, and if you blow it up it gets fuzzy

would you suggest png??

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Southern
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Member # 141

posted 13-03-2003 11:08 AM     Profile for Southern   Author's Homepage   Email Southern     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
As i rule I only use .jpgs for files with a lot of colour information, as they do tend to go incredibly lossy (as demonstrated by GIAM), although the quality of the picture far surpasses any filetype. Just make sure you can get a good balance between quality rate of the jpg (1-12) and the filesize .
I like to use gifs whenever I can because even though the colour palette is smaller, the file size is smaller, hence people with slower internet connections can see the picture a lot more clearly.
Gifs are better (IMHO)for scanned lineart as well, because the lines become more defined against a white background with the retraction of the greys of the piece of paper.
Havn't played around with .pngs, the only things i know about them is that white (RGB 255, 255, 255) seems to go grey for me. I guess I'd better try out some of them
I hate bmps. They are usually huge sizes files and corners don't tend to anti-alias very well with them. If i have to use .bmp, I always zip them up in winzip -> 1MB file suddenly becomes 10Kb - try it, it's fun

Thanks a lot for the info, GIAM!

[ 13-03-2003: Message edited by: Southern ]


Posts: 16 | From: South London | Registered: Feb 2003  |  IP: Logged
G.i.A.m.
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posted 16-03-2003 11:50 PM     Profile for G.i.A.m.   Email G.i.A.m.     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
Hm in your situation Kaori I think it doesnt matter that much what format you save it (tho I would either keep it in PSD/PSP or save it as PNG/TIF).

But it sounds like you scanned it with a too low dpi.
See your printer prints with a certain dpi (can be selected in the printer setup normaly) if you scan with a lower dpi than you print, the image will apear smaller (resizing in a program has the same effect ofcourse).
So make sure you scanned it with the right dpi.

Hmm southern when PNG does weird coloring things it is normaly because of wrong gamma settings (in the png).
PNG can save a gamma setting.
This way a image should look almost the same no matter on what computer it is viewed.
But unfortunaly browsers seem to apply different base gamma when no information was saved(IE darkens the image).

BMP is actually pretty cool.
It is normaly uncompressed and this way you see instantly how much ram this thing will use.

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Wer nicht vom Meister lernt, lernt nie etwas.

Wer nur vom Meister lernt, lernt nie genug.


Posts: 1063 | From: Germany, Giessen | Registered: Jan 2002  |  IP: Logged
G.i.A.m.
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posted 13-04-2003 01:24 AM     Profile for G.i.A.m.   Email G.i.A.m.     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
Just wanted To let everybody know that all the major browsers (Opera 6, IE 5,Netscape 6, Mozilla), now have full PNG support.
That means you can save PNGs with alphatransparent informations and people will see it correct in their browser (have to change my avatar now).

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Wer nicht vom Meister lernt, lernt nie etwas.

Wer nur vom Meister lernt, lernt nie genug.


Posts: 1063 | From: Germany, Giessen | Registered: Jan 2002  |  IP: Logged
AKATT
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posted 13-04-2003 05:32 AM     Profile for AKATT   Email AKATT     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
Do Tif files reduce pic quality? and by how much compared to the other formats?

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Final Fantasy

Posts: 451 | From: London, England | Registered: Apr 2002  |  IP: Logged
G.i.A.m.
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Member # 14

posted 16-04-2003 12:44 AM     Profile for G.i.A.m.   Email G.i.A.m.     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
Nope tif normaly dont reduce quality (they compress similar to gif and png).

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Wer nicht vom Meister lernt, lernt nie etwas.

Wer nur vom Meister lernt, lernt nie genug.


Posts: 1063 | From: Germany, Giessen | Registered: Jan 2002  |  IP: Logged

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