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Author Topic: Commission Rates?
Zephos
Member

Member # 206

posted 22-08-2004 01:55 PM     Profile for Zephos   Author's Homepage   Email Zephos     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
I may be an experienced artist, but I am a very inexperienced entrepreneur. That being said, recently, there have been people who like my work and who are interested in having me do commissions for them. Of course, naturally, I wish to do work for them as well, getting paid to do my favorite past time is always a good thing to me.

Anyhow, long story short, I was wondering, given my level of experience and skill (Visit my site for examples), what would you evaluate my skills as being worth for a completely colored full bodied color drawing with a background? I am accustom to judging things with US dollars, even though I am Canadian.

I know there's the old measurement of how many hours a piece takes you, but a lot of the time, I have guilt about accidentally over charging a customer... I mean, tardiness and inefficiency is a fault of the artist, so why should the customer pay for it?

Strangely, quite a few people seem to be from the UK who like my work, so I was wondering in particular about what Bomu thinks would be a reasonal price? As he has seen my work. A skilled anime/manga artist (Outside of Japan) on the higher ranks like Rachel Young has no problem charging $100+ for a full on piece, but somehow, I feel guilty charging money period (I feel guilty for getting paid to have fun!), but I need it to support my rather spotty freelance career, so I have no overriding morale choice in the matter. I would highly appreciate it if someone could help me determind a good general price range for my work, particularly on full on pieces.

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www.xynthica.com

Zephos's ice creamy anime and manga art, featuring Xynthica, a fluffy little female biped who works as a summoned monster for endorsing products -- instead of killing things! Contains cute colorful cartoons and caustic cultural commentary!


Posts: 93 | From: | Registered: Feb 2004  |  IP: Logged
Tri_kento
Super Member

Member # 194

posted 22-08-2004 04:53 PM     Profile for Tri_kento   Author's Homepage   Email Tri_kento     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
well i've been in the art crowd for about mmmm 7 years i think and by looking at your work on your website i would say the far price would be about 100 for a regular drawing . this is because until people are well known artist people may like your work but they won't give u big bucks for unless your then one in the magazine understand? so in short with i don't think that last sentence was u can't expect to make big bucks like 1000s for your drawing right now unless u do something so fanomanal (i know i prob spelt that wrong) like silent dan's orc pic with is really outa this world that's about the best advise i good give since am still to crappy of a drawer for people to even glance at my crap so ya hope your drawings bring u in some bucks.

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~Save points are for quiters~

Posts: 1560 | From: Canada | Registered: Jan 2004  |  IP: Logged
Bomu
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Member # 1

posted 22-08-2004 11:53 PM     Profile for Bomu   Author's Homepage   Email Bomu     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
Good question! Pricing work is never straight forward. There are dozens of factors to take in to consideration when pricing work so I can understand your uncertainty.
I think the main things to think about are:

What is your work worth to you? All work takes time, effort and skill.

How does your work compare to other professionals? I can see you're definitely not a beginner, but still improving- like all of us really!

Who is paying and what will the work be used for? This is very important, as individuals will only pay so much for a private commission, where as companies looking to use the character in a game or as a company mascot are usually willing to pay a much higher amount.

Starting up as a freelancer or someone who draws for money is hard at first as you need to know business as much as how to draw well. Be strict with your pricing and don't undersell yourself as you'll just feel ripped off if you end up taking extra days over a picture and feel you weren't properly compensated for your time. However, overcharge and you'll never get customers! It's a tricky balancing act.

I hate to put a price on your work but for a full colour CG character and fairly detailed BG for private use, perhaps $20-$40? What do you think?

But please only price at what you feel comfortable with.

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Organic Metal


Posts: 1622 | From: Kent, England | Registered: Jan 2002  |  IP: Logged
Zephos
Member

Member # 206

posted 23-08-2004 02:12 AM     Profile for Zephos   Author's Homepage   Email Zephos     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
Thanx for the advice! I'm a pretty unknown artist, so I have no gripes about my work not being remotely anywhere in the +100 range. It's basically getting paid to practice and have fun, but it would be naive of me to sell my work for less than it is worth. Right now, I'm pricing my works at $50, and nobody seems to have any gripes with it, which makes me happy... but my uncle once told me, if the customer doesn't try to negotiate the price, then you are charging too low... well, I guess experience is the child of failure, so I'll have to lose a few bling whales on the road to business anyway, might as well be in the persuit of learning.

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www.xynthica.com

Zephos's ice creamy anime and manga art, featuring Xynthica, a fluffy little female biped who works as a summoned monster for endorsing products -- instead of killing things! Contains cute colorful cartoons and caustic cultural commentary!


Posts: 93 | From: | Registered: Feb 2004  |  IP: Logged
Dagan
Member

Member # 259

posted 25-11-2004 03:58 AM     Profile for Dagan   Email Dagan     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
I just saw your site. Your work is amazing. I will tell you what I do to price, however I am no expert or even close to you skills or many here on this site.
I look for what others of my abilty are charging and I normally bid slightly lower than what they are doing. They at least put me in the ball park for charging.

Posts: 68 | From: Wisconsin | Registered: Nov 2004  |  IP: Logged
<Erock>
Newbie

posted 25-11-2004 08:26 PM       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
I would pay about $25 for an 8" by 11" size pic colored. Nice stuff on your site.
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Zephos
Member

Member # 206

posted 26-11-2004 04:55 AM     Profile for Zephos   Author's Homepage   Email Zephos     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
Why, thank you! Hahaa, I've had a couple of commissions under my belt now since this was originally posted... but I think recently, I learned that artistic talent is no substitute for business sense when it comes to commissions, as well as being a good judge of character.

I think recently, I might have made my first commission mistake based on a royalties project rather than a full payment one... you know how sometimes you just get that negative vibe that somethings not going to end well but you are too deep to back out? I've been having that feeling for a while now... having your client not reply back to you after the work is done is also a pretty horrible sign... but eh, I still have faith in the majority of the human race Worst case scenario, it's a life lesson.

Ohhh, anyhow, thank you all for the kind words, I hope to have some of my newer stuff out before the New Year

Hey Bomu and the rest of the veterans on this board, is there a formal procedure to contracting a commission that freelance artists do to make sure that neither side gets screwed over before any actual work is done? I have found working on faith alone highly unbeneficial. My dealings have been online primarily, so I have e-mail threads for contracts, but that can kinda' fall through the roof right? So I was just wondering if there is a more professional way to do this than "Your word and my word" without lawyer oriented legal binding. Thanks in advance

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www.xynthica.com

Zephos's ice creamy anime and manga art, featuring Xynthica, a fluffy little female biped who works as a summoned monster for endorsing products -- instead of killing things! Contains cute colorful cartoons and caustic cultural commentary!


Posts: 93 | From: | Registered: Feb 2004  |  IP: Logged
Tri_kento
Super Member

Member # 194

posted 26-11-2004 05:11 AM     Profile for Tri_kento   Author's Homepage   Email Tri_kento     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
Well u know in school I use to make a few contracts 2 hold some kids 2 there words. what u just basicly need to do is write a little 3 line thing saying that so much has to by paid 4 the picture. Then i would but a "as is" agreement it the contract so if u send the picture has a stain he can't get mad since it has the as is in it.


In other words if the guy gives u some instructions towards the drawing and u do it and he don't like it he's stuck with the pic and still has to send u money since there is a as is agreement in the contract.

anyways before u lay a single lead on paper have the guy sign the contract and have him send a pic of him signing the contract and holding it, thus if he tries to worm his way out u got proof that he signed and he can sue him some money. thus everyone gets wat they want.

this might sound a little one sided but it's wat i used and trust me it works great.(hope it made sense contract talk sounds like a bunch of giberish if u don't know about law agreements and junk ^_^*)

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~Save points are for quiters~


Posts: 1560 | From: Canada | Registered: Jan 2004  |  IP: Logged
Jats1
Mega Member

Member # 183

posted 26-11-2004 03:48 PM     Profile for Jats1   Email Jats1     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
I used to do all the flyer commisions for my university. You can send legally binding invoices, but then you need to form what in england is called a 'vat registered company', and you have to pay tax, unlike cash in hand work (I hate paying tax). I just got one of my dad's companies to send them invoices, and the nice secretary dealt with chasing them up (she loves that stuff she used to be a civil servant) Im not sure what constitutes an electronic form of invoice though. but im sure they exist. I think the main thing, as I understand it) is that you are some kind of company. (making one is easier than it sounds, my parents form companies just to buy properties abroad to skip out on property tax and stuff and then dissolve them again - one can be quite cunning with all this stuff lol)

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Posts: 497 | From: London | Registered: Dec 2003  |  IP: Logged
Zephos
Member

Member # 206

posted 26-11-2004 06:24 PM     Profile for Zephos   Author's Homepage   Email Zephos     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
Ah, I see! Thank you for the advice! I got to start getting more guts in asking for terms and legal bindings, since on my last commissions I was overly friendly and naive. I hate to become jaded I suppose, but jaded is just another word for efficiently experience.

On my first commission being friendly paid off, because my first client was a real angel and the work was fun, the pay was great, and the client was reliable from the get go, but I also have seen what can be lost from not having a backbone.

So in you guys opinion, in being a freelance artist, what do you think is more important? Business skills, or art skills? Kind of the chicken and the egg, but I just thought it'd be interesting to ask

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www.xynthica.com

Zephos's ice creamy anime and manga art, featuring Xynthica, a fluffy little female biped who works as a summoned monster for endorsing products -- instead of killing things! Contains cute colorful cartoons and caustic cultural commentary!


Posts: 93 | From: | Registered: Feb 2004  |  IP: Logged
Bomu
Moderator

Member # 1

posted 28-11-2004 09:40 PM     Profile for Bomu   Author's Homepage   Email Bomu     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
Business or art skills? You need both to succeed! But I'd imagine if you were more business orientated you'd be better off since nomatter how good an artist you are, if you don't know about professional matters, negotiating and business practises, you'll never get what you deserve. I see so many artists on the web- good ones, that ask for $10-$50 for a commission but if these people knew how to pitch themselves to companies rather than their fans, they could easily be making 10 times that for the same amount of work!

As far as legal bindings go, I tend to work with contracts if I do a commission or project which will pay £100+ ($200). If it were something smaller for a private commission for example, I may not bother with contracts providing I felt there was trust between myself and the client- As you said Zephos, if you get that feeling that something's not right, leave it alone, or if you're already committed, try to resolve things before doing anything else..

Also, if you're not working with contracts, make sure to get 50% of the payment up front before even starting work! This isn't uncommon and it ensures you will at least get something if the project turns sour half way through, but most importantly, the client is then committed to see the project through until the end, as they have already invested time and money into it. Also make sure the final isn't sent until the last payment is received. Instead perhaps email a lower quality version of the artwork etc.

Not sure if any of that helps. If you have any other specific questions, let me know.

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Organic Metal


Posts: 1622 | From: Kent, England | Registered: Jan 2002  |  IP: Logged
Zephos
Member

Member # 206

posted 29-11-2004 09:00 PM     Profile for Zephos   Author's Homepage   Email Zephos     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
Thank you for the info Bomu! I found that very helpful to remember regarding future dealings I will have, I particularly found the bit on asking %50 upfront so that the client is committed to the project very useful (Being a naive business person, I have a tendency to fear being rude, but it's a comfort to know that such things are standard). In my recent experience, wishy washy clients that take days to respond and are very detail unspecific have caused me great inconvenience, so a little more project commitment and indept detail information from the other side is great, and of course, anything to shake this horrible feeling of the possibility that you are being screwed over. Thank you again for your advice

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www.xynthica.com

Zephos's ice creamy anime and manga art, featuring Xynthica, a fluffy little female biped who works as a summoned monster for endorsing products -- instead of killing things! Contains cute colorful cartoons and caustic cultural commentary!


Posts: 93 | From: | Registered: Feb 2004  |  IP: Logged
Cloud
Extreme Member
Banned as of 11/11/05

Member # 276

posted 17-12-2004 05:33 PM     Profile for Cloud   Author's Homepage   Email Cloud     Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
30 bucks.

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I hope you get ran over by a big ice cream truck full of AIDS

Posts: 806 | From: Earth; Canada; Saskatoon | Registered: Dec 2004  |  IP: Logged

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